June 7, 2010: Sebastian Junger's War

>> Rooney: TONIGHT ON GREATER

BOSTON, HE BROUGHT US A DEATH

IN BELMONT AND THE PERFECT

STORM.

AUTHOR SEBASTIEN JUNGER JOINS

ME WITH HIS LATEST BOOK, WAR,

EMBEDDED ON THE FRONT LINES IN

AFGHANISTAN.

NEXT.

 

>> Rooney: TONIGHT ON GREATER

BOSTON, THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN

LIKE YOU'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE.

SEBASTIEN JUNGER WITH HIS

DOCUMENTARY AND NEW BOOK,

"WAR."

PLUS COUPON CLICKING.

BUSINESS CONTRIBUTOR KRIS

FRIESWICK ON SAVING MONEY WITH

INTERNET COUPONS.

GOOD EVENING.

AUTHOR SEBASTIEN JUNGER HAS

CAPTIVATED READERS WITH HIS

GENRE OF NON-FICTION

ADVENTURE.

HIS LATEST WORK WAR TAKES US

TO THE FINAL LINES OF THE

BATTLE IN AFGHANISTAN.

MORE THAN 1,000 AMERICANS HAVE

BEEN KILLED SINCE THE WAR

BEGAN IN 2001 INCLUDING AT

LEAST FIVE TODAY.

JUNGER HAS DIRECTED A

DOCUMENTARY AFTER BEING

EMBEDDED WITH A U.S. PLATOON

IN AFGHANISTAN.

 

>> I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU.

THE UGLIEST PLACE ON EARTH,

THAT VALLEY.

 

>> WE'RE NOT READY FOR THIS.

 

>> I'M THINKING, WHAT ARE WE

DOING?

 

>> Rooney: THE FILM IS NAMED

AFTER THE MEDIC KILLED AT THE

YOUFT POST.

IT'S CONSIDERED ONE OF THE

MOST DANGEROUS POSTS IN THE

MILITARY.

THE FILM IS BASED ON JUNGER'S

NEW BOOK ENTITLED WAR.

IT CAPTURES WHAT IT'S LIKE TO

BE IN THE FRONT LINES OF

COMBAT.

THAT IT DOES.

SEBASTIEN JUNGER IS HERE.

WELCOME.

 

>> THANK YOU.

 

>> Rooney: TALK ABOUT THIS

AREA OF AFGHANISTAN, THE

VALLEY, AS BEING THE

AFGHANISTAN OF AFGHANISTAN.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

 

>> L ATS SIX-MILE LONG VALLEY.

THE PEOPLE THERE ARE VERY

INDEPENDENT, TOUGH PEOPLE.

THEY REPULSED THE RUSSIANS AND

THEN THE TALIBAN.

THE U.S. PROBABLY GOT FURTHER

DOWN THAT VALLEY AND

INFLUENCED IT MORE THAN ANYONE

ELSE EVER HAS BUT EVEN THAT

WAS A PRETTY ROUGH RIDE.

 

>> Rooney: WHY DON'T THE

TALIBAN GIVE THE PEOPLE THE

HARD TIME.

THE MEN DIE THEIR BEARDS RED.

THE WOMEN WEAR THIS VERY

BRIGHT, LOUD CLOTHING.

WHY AREN'T THEY HARASSED?

 

>> THEY ARE HARASS TERRIBLY

PARTICULARLY ANYONE WHO

COOPERATES WITH THE AMERICANS.

I THINK ACTUALLY THE LOCALS

WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE SEEN

THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

PROJECTS THAT WERE GOING TO

COME INTO THEIR VALLEY.

THE AMERICANS WERE GOING TO

BUILD A ROAD.

THEY WERE DIGGING WELLS SO THE

CHILDREN COULD HAVE CLEAN

WATER.

THEY BUILT THE SCHOOL, THE

MEDICAL... ACCESS TO MEDICAL

CARE.

BUT THE TALIBAN REALLY CLAMPED

DOWN ON THEM AND SOMETIMES

KILLED LOCALS WHO COOPERATED.

IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED

DYNAMIC THERE.

 

>> Rooney: YOU TALK ABOUT THIS

AREA THOUGH AS TOO REMOTE TOO

CONQUER.

THEY CAN'T BE INTIMIDATED.

THEY'RE TOO AUTONOMOUS TO BE

BOUGHT OFF.

I MEAN, WHY WAS THIS AREA SO

IMPORTANT TO THE UNITED

STATES?

 

>> I THINK FOR A VARIETY OF

REASONS.

ONE REASON IS IT WAS A SQUARE

ON THE CHESS BOARD.

ARMIES HAVE TO FIGHT

SOMEWHERE.

THEY END UP FIGHTING SOMETIMES

IN PLACES LIKE GETTYSBURG THAT

IN RETROSPECT DON'T MAKE THAT

MUCH SENSE.

THE TALIBAN SHOT DOWN A

CHINOOK, A BIG HELICOPTER THAT

KILLED SERVICEMEN IN 2005.

THEY WERE TRYING TO CAPTURE A

GUY WHO WAS BUILDING I.E.D.s

ROADSIDE BOMBS AND USING THEM

TO ATTACK THE RIVER VALLEY TO

THE NORTH.

ONCE THE CHINOOK WAS SHOT DOWN,

IT TOOK ABOUT FIVE YEARS,

ALMOST 50 AMERICANS WERE

KILLED HUNDREDS OF TALIBAN

WERE KILLED.

IT WAS A VERY TOUGH FIGHT

THERE.

 

>> Rooney: I WANT TO TALK

ABOUT THE EMOTIONAL PSYCHE OF

WAR, WHAT THE SOLDIERS GO

THROUGH, AND A HUGE WIDE RANGE

OF EMOTIONS INCLUDING FEAR AND

HUMOR.

YOU NEVER GET INTO AUTHORITY.

I REALIZE I READ THIS ENTIRE

BOOK.

WAIT A SECOND.

I NEVER HEARD FROM SOMEBODY

WHO WAS IN CHARGE OR

POLITICIANS OR ANYBODY.

IT WAS STRICTLY IN THE HANDS

OF THE GUYS.

 

>> I REALLY RESTRICTED MY

FOCUS TO THE PEOPLE AND THE

THINGS THAT THE SOLDIERS

THEMSELVES HAD ACCESS TO.

I WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT

WAS LIKE TO BE A SOLDIER IN

COMBAT IN THE U.S. ARMY IN

AFGHANISTAN.

I THINK THE HIGHEST I WENT WAS

THE BATTALION COMMANDER WHO

WAS A GUY THAT, BECAUSE THE

SOLDIERS I WAS WITH, WOULD

HAVE OCCASION TO TALK TO.

THE SOLDIERS REALLY DON'T TALK

ABOUT THE POLITICS OF THE WAR.

THE ANALOGY I MAKE IS THAT

IT'S LIKE POLICEMEN DON'T

REALLY TALK ABOUT

SOCIOECONOMIC CONDITIONS THAT

PRODUCE HIGH CRIME RATES.

IT'S JUST REALLY NOT PART OF

WHERE THEIR FOCUS IS.

 

>> Rooney: YOU WERE IN AND OUT

OF AFGHANISTAN FOR OVER A YEAR

PERIOD BETWEEN '07 AND '08.

YOU TOLD ME EARLIER TODAY

YOU'VE BEEN GOING THERE SINCE

1996.

I WAS STUNNED BY THE GRUELING

NATURE OF THIS.

EVEN WHERE YOU HAD TO GO.

YOU'RE A JOURNALIST.

YOU HAD TO BE IN SHAPE, JUST

THE WALKING, THE AMOUNT OF

STUFF, YOU KNOW, MAYBE UP TO

150 POUNDS OF STUFF ON YOUR

BACK.

MAYBE YOU DIDN'T CARRY THAT

AMOUNT OF STUFF.

WHAT WAS THAT LIKE FOR YOU?

 

>> PHYSICALLY IT WAS

INCREDIBLY HARD FOR THE

SOLDIERS.

IT'S VERY ROUGH COUNTRY.

IT LOOKS LIKE COLORADO.

IT STARTS AT 5,000 FEET AND

GOES UP FROM THERE.

VERY STEEP MOUNTAINS.

THE GUYS ON MULTIDAY

OPERATIONS HAD 140-150 POUNDS

ON THEIR BACK.

 

>> Rooney: A LOT OF WATER.

 

>> WATER AND AMMUNITION WEIGHS

A LOT.

THEY FOUGHT VERY HARD THERE.

THEY WERE IN 500 FIRE FIGHTS

IN THE COURSE OF THEIR

DEPLOYMENT.

A FIFTH OF THE COMBAT IN

AFGHANISTAN HAPPENS IN THIS

TINY VALLEY.

 

>> Rooney: NIGHT COMBAT.

A LOT OF THIS IS ERIE, NOT

BEING ABLE TO SEE.

IS IT DARKER THERE?

SOME PLACES ARE DARKER AT

NIGHT.

PEOPLE SLEEPING IN SHIFTS AND

SOMETIMES IT GOT SO DANGEROUS

THAT THERE WERE MORE PEOPLE

AWAKE THAN ASLEEP.

YOU REALLY HAD TO, YOU KNOW,

IT WAS REALLY A MATTER OF

WATCHING OUT FOR EACH OTHER.

 

>> IT WAS VERY DARK.

THERE'S NO CITIES TO SORT OF

POLLUTE THE NIGHT SKY WITH

LIGHT.

NIGHTS OF NO MOON WHEN THERE

WAS NO MOON IT WAS PITCH

BLACK.

THAT WAS A REAL PROBLEM FOR ME

BECAUSE WE'D START OUT FROM

THE OUTPOSTS ON, YOU KNOW,

PATROLS THAT WOULD GO DOWN THE

VALLEY INTO ENEMY TERRITORY IN

THE COVER OF DARKNESS AND THEN

WE'D SPEND THE DAY DOWN THERE.

I HAD A TERRIBLE TIME NOT

FALLING OVER AND NOT BREAKING

MY LEG AND KEEPING UP WITH

THESE GUYS.

 

>> Rooney: WHAT WAS THE MISERY

FACTOR LIKE?

HOT IN THE SUMMER, COLD IN THE

WINTER?

WERE PEOPLE HUNGRY AND COLD.

 

>> THE MISERY FACTOR WAS

PRETTY ASTRONOMICAL.

WE WERE AT A TWO-HOUR WALK

FROM THE MAIN BASE.

IT WAS A FAIR FIGHT FOR AT

LEAST HALF AN HOUR.

SOME DAYS THE OUTPOST WAS

AATTACKED THREE OR FOUR

MONTHS.

NO RUNNING WAUR.

NO ONE BATHED FOR A MONTH AT A

TIME.

WE DIDN'T GET OUT OF OUR

CLOTHES FOR A MONTH AT A TIME.

NO INTERNET, NO PHONE.

NO ONE COULD CALL HOME FOR A

MONTH A TIME.

IT WAS VERY, VERY ROUGH OUT

THERE.

 

>> Rooney: A LOT OF THESE GUYS

SAW REALLY AWFUL, AWFUL THINGS

HAPPEN TO THEIR PALS INCLUDING

THE NAME OF THE... THE OUTPOST

WAS NAMED AFTER SOMEONE.

DO THEY THINK ABOUT IT?

DO THEY CARRY IT WITH THEM?

YOU HAVE DESCRIPTIONS OF

THINGS.

YOU WEREN'T EVEN THERE FOR

SOME OF THESE.

THE GUYS MUST HAVE TOLD YOU

ABOUT IT.

 

>> OF COURSE.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, YOU SEE

SOLDIERS IN THEIR UNIFORMS

WITH THEIR GUNS.

THEY LOOK VERY TOUGH.

THEY ARE TOUGH.

THEY'RE TOUGH GUYS.

BUT THEY'RE ALSO HIGH SCHOOL

KIDS IN SOME WAYS.

IMAGINE IF YOUR HIGH SCHOOL,

YOUR SON IN HIGH SCHOOL WAS

WALKING DOWN THE ROAD WITH HIS

BEST FRIEND AND A CAR SWERVED

AND KILLED THE BEST FRIEND.

YOU KNOW, IN FRONT OF YOUR

SON.

THAT'S THE EFFECT OF DEATH IN

COMBAT.

IT'S NO LESS, JUST BECAUSE

THEY'RE SOLDIERS IT'S NO LESS

THAN THAT WOULD BE.

 

>> Rooney: HOW IS THIS FOR YOU

MECHANICALLY?

YOU WERE A PHOTOGRAPHER FOR A

WHILE.

YOU SHOT THAT FILM WHICH GOT A

GRAND JURY AWARD AT SUN DANCE.

HOW CONSPICUOUS WERE YOU?

I MEAN, HOW WORRIED WERE YOU

ABOUT BEING CONSPICUOUS?

YOU DIDN'T WANT TO BE A BURD

TONE THE GUYS.

YOU DIDN'T WANT TO BE THE LAG

ARD IN THE GROUP.

 

>> TIM AND I WERE IN PRETTY

GOOD SHAPE.

WE'VE BOTH BEEN IN A LOT OF

COMBAT BEFORE, YOU KNOW, AS

JOURNALISTS IN OTHER

COUNTRIES.

WE HANDLED OURSELVES OKAY.

THE GUYS... WE EACH DID FIVE

ONE-MONTH TRIPS.

 

>> Rooney: SOMETIMES HE WENT

WITHOUT YOU.

 

>> VICE VERSA.

WE BOTH SHOT A LOT OF VIDEO.

 

>> Rooney: IS THE FILM NARRATE

SND.

 

>> IT'S NARRATED BY THE MEN

THEMSELVES.

WE DIDN'T WANT ANYTHING IN THE

FILM THAT WAS NOT IN THE

VALLEY.

WE DIDN'T INTERVIEW ANY

DIPLOMATS OR GENERALS.

THE ONLY PEOPLE WERE VOICES IN

THAT FILM WERE MEN WHO WERE

FIGHTING IN THE VALLEY.

 

>> Rooney: THIS IS GOING TO

DEBUT EVERYWHERE, I GUESS,

WHAT, JUNE 25?

 

>> YEAH, IT STARTS COMING OUT

THE END OF JUNE.

MY BOOK HAS BEEN OUT FOR TWO

MONTHS.

WE WANTED TO ESTABLISH THE

BOOK FIRST.

IT'S ABOUT THE SAME GUYS BUT A

VERY DIFFERENT THING.

THEN WE WANTED TO FOLLOW WITH

THE MOVIE.

 

>> Rooney: THIS IS JUST

ASTOUNDING.

THE SIGHTS AND THE SOUNDS, THE

ANIMALS, THE TOPICAL TERRAIN.

EVERYTHING.

YOU WERE SAYING THAT THE

PEOPLE WHO PROBABLY GOT THE

BEST INSIGHT OUT OF THIS,

YOU'VE HEARD A LOT FROM THE

WIVES AND THE GIRL FRIENDS OF

THE GUYS BECAUSE IT REALLY

TELLS WHAT THEIR LIFE WAS LIKE

DAY IN AND DAY OUT.

 

>> IT WAS ALL MEN.

THESE GUYS COME BECOME....

 

>> Rooney: HOW COME THERE WERE

NO WOMEN SOLDIERS IN THERE?

 

>> THERE'S NO WOMEN IN THE

INFANTRY.

THERE'S NO WOMEN IN COMBAT

UNITS.

NO WOMEN THERE.

THE GUYS COME BACK REALLY

ALTERED IN BAD WAYS AND

ACTUALLY IN GOOD WAYS TOO I

THINK.

THE WIVES, THE MOTHERS, THE

GIRL FRIENDS ARE SO AFFECTED

BY THE EXPERIENCE THAT THEIR

MAN WENT THROUGH BUT THEY

CAN'T UNDERSTAND IT.

THEY HAVE NO ACCESS TO IT.

SO MY BOOK AND THE MOVIE IS IS

A WAY FOR FAMILY MEMBERS TO

SORT OF LOOK THROUGH THE KEY

HOLE INTO THIS VERY MALE WORLD

OF COMBAT AND UNDERSTAND IT,

ALMOST EXPERIENCE IT.

 

>> Rooney: YOU HAVE TO TELL

THE STORY ABOUT THEM PUTTING A

PIPE CLEANER SPIDER IN YOUR

BED.

JUST THE THOUGHT OF HAVING

ANY....

 

>> THERE WERE SCORPIONS AND

SNAKES AND SPIDERS.

HOT IN THE SUMMER.

SWARMING WITH FLIES.

 

>> Rooney: THEY WORE FLEA

COLLARS.

 

>> THEY DIDN'T BATHE FOR A

MONTH AT A TIME.

THEY WERE IN AN ENORMOUS

AMOUNT OF COMBAT.

WHEN THEY CAME BACK TO THEIR

BASE IN ITALY THEY HAD A FEW

BOOZING WEEKS, SAW THEIR GIRL

FRIENDS, GOT DRUNK AND SORT OF

ENJOYED THEMSELVES.

AFTER A FEW WEEKS A LOT OF

THEM WANTED TO GO BACK.

AND THE POINT OF MY BOOK

REALLY IS TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO

CIVILIANS WHAT IT IS ABOUT

COMBAT THAT YOU CAN TAKE A

YOUNG MAN AND ALMOST KILL HIM

FOR A YEAR AND DEBRIF DEPRIVE

HIM OF EVERYTHING THAT PEOPLE

ENJOY IN LIFE AND WHEN HE

COMES BACK TO CIVILIZATION HE

FEELS SHALLOW AND

INSUBSTANTIAL AND WANT TO

RETURN TO COMBAT.

MY BOOK IS TRYING TO EXPLAIN

WHAT THAT IS BECAUSE UNTIL WE

UNDERSTAND IT, WAR WILL NEVER

STOP UNTIL WE UNDERSTAND THAT

AND GIVE THESE GUYS SOMETHING

THAT THEY NEED BACK HOME.

 

>> Rooney: THAT'S PART OF THE

DISTURBING PART OF IT.

GUYS GET INTO IT BECAUSE IT

SEEMS SO POINTLESS AND FUTURE

I'LL IN THE END, EVEN TODAY

FIVE MORE GUYS KILLED.

IT SEEMS LIKE SUCH A WASTE.

 

>> IT IS A WASTE.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, DEATH AND

WAR BY DEFINITION IT'S A

WASTE.

YOU KNOW, WE CAN ARGUE ABOUT

WHICH WARS ARE WORTH FIGHTING.

WORLD WAR II ARGUABLY WAS.

YOU KNOW, THIS IS A VERY

CONTENTIOUS ISSUE.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER

IS.

 

>> Rooney: YOU DON'T WANT TO

PASS JUDGMENT ON THAT.

WAR, A GREAT BOOK.

 

>> THANK YOU.

 

>> Rooney: WHEN WE CONTINUE,

HOW THE INTERNET CAN SAVE YOU

MONEY BUT FIRST THIS MESSAGE

FROM WGBH PRESIDENT.

 

>> WITH QUESTIONS ON EVERY

SUBJECT FROM HISTORY AND

SCIENCE TO GEOGRAPHY AND

LITERATURE, TO ART AND POPULAR

CULTURE, HIGH SCHOOL QUIZ SHOW

GATHERS THE BAY STATE'S

BRIGHTEST TEENS AND TESTS

THEIR METAL.

I'M JOHN ABBOTT, PRESIDENT OF

WGBH.

COMING TO YOU FROM THE SET OF

HIGH SCHOOL QUIZ SHOW RIGHT

HERE IN OUR VERY OWN STUDIOS.

ACROSS THE HALL IN STUDIO B,

WE SHOOT GREATER BOSTON.

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ENRICH, EDUCATE AND ENTERTAIN

OR COMMUNITY.

WE NEED YOUR HELP IN ORDER TO

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IT'S YOUR SUPPORT THAT KEEPS

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PERHAPS IT'S TIME TO BECOME A

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IT'S EASY, CONVENIENT AND YOU

DETERMINE HOW MUCH YOU WANT TO

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GIVE US A CALL AT 1-800-492-1111

THAT'S THE NUMBER AND IT'S

EASY TO DO.

 

>> I HAVE YET ANOTHER REASON

FOR YOU TO CALL THAT NUMBER.

HERE'S A SPECIAL OPPORTUNITY

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YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER AS

WELL BECOMING A SUSTAINER AS

JOHN MENTIONED.

NOW WATCH THIS.

 

>> YOU WON'T MISS A MINUTE OF

MYSTERY THIS SUMMER.

 

>> WHEN YOU BECOME A WGBH

SUSTAINER WE'LL KEEP MASTER

PIECE MYSTERIES IN THE NIGHTS

ALL SUMMER EVEN DURING PLEDGE

WEEK.

 

>> THAT IS INTERESTING.

 

>> MOST THRILLING INDEED.

 

>> I'M VERY PLEASED.

 

>> CALL 1-800-492-1111 OR

VISIT WGBH.ORG.

BECOME A SUSTAINER TO HELP

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>> SUNDAY NIGHTS ON 2 ALL

SUMMER LONG.

THANKS TO YOU.

 

>> Rooney: THANK YOU FOR

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NOW.

1-800-492-1111.

WE'D ALSO LIKE TO THANK BACH

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>> THEIR DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR

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BECOME A SUPPORTER OF WGBH AND

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WE'D LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU AND

LOVE TO COUNT ON YOU.

 

 

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