Transcript
>> HINOJOSA: Her play, The
Vagina Monologues, has been
performed and banned all over
the world, and her global
campaign to end violence against
women and girls has motivated
millions to take action.
Playwright, author, and women's
rights activist Eve Ensler.
I'm Maria Hinojosa, this is One
On One.
Eve Ensler, playwright, author,
activist; welcome to our
program.
It's great to have you here.
>> ENSLER: Well, I'm so happy to be
here.
>> HINOJOSA: So if people don't
know, the thing that you are
most well-known for is your play
The Vagina Monologues, and
what's amazing is-- because as I
was prepping for this, I was
thinking and I was reading
everything and I was like, "My
God, you know, ten years ago,
that word-- 'vagina'-- would
have not been said, you know, on
public television."
So when you sit back and you
think, "Wow, I really have had
an impact," I mean, on many
levels, but on that particular
issue-- the fact that you have
changed how one word about a
woman's most intimate anatomy is
seen and discussed.
What does that mean for you?
>> ENSLER: You know, it's really hard to
evaluate what you've done, you
know, and it's actually not for
me to figure out...
>> HINOJOSA: And you're such a
humble person, I know that,
but...
>> ENSLER: What I feel good about is
that people seem to say the word
more, and what is significant
about that is it means that
vaginas actually exist, and if
they exist, then we can have
agency and rights over our
vaginas, and we can know what
gives them pleasure or doesn't
give them pleasure, and we can
say "no" when we mean no, and we
can... we can actually create a
reality so that bad things don't
happen to them in the dark-- and
that's exciting to me.
>> HINOJOSA: Because
essentially, you know, your
generation, my generation-- it
was just something that you
never, ever, ever talked about,
ever looked at, ever discussed,
ever thought about.
>> ENSLER: And also never had any
pleasure around.
You know, we were talking
about-- the other day, friends
of mine-- when we were brought
up, we weren't taught that sex
was something that could give
you pleasure, or that emboldened
your life, or that was a central
part of who you were; it was
something you did to have
babies, or something you did and
you didn't talk about it, or you
just "got through," like an
exam, do you know?
And the idea that women now can
actually know their bodies and
know their vaginas and know
their clitoris and know what
gives them pleasure, so that men
and women can be in this-- or
men... or women and women, or
whatever people choose to be in
partnership with-- but that our
sexuality's part of our life,
and not something that's
embarrassed, or hidden, or
censored or muted.
It's our life force; it's where
our energy comes from.
>> HINOJOSA: So when you look
out into America, let's--
because you do a lot of
international work, and we're
going to get into that in a
second-- but what do you see?
Because I always feel like it's
constant contradiction, you
know?
On the one hand, a sense of
younger women feeling
empowered-- being able to talk
about their vaginas, et cetera--
on the other hand, it feels
like, you know, very crude; that
somehow women who are, you know,
more sexually "out there" are
using it in a way that maybe is
not the... what do you see when
you look out?
>> ENSLER: You know, I know this is a
general way of seeing it, but--
and the word is still not the
best word-- but patriarchy is
still alive, you know?
We're still living within a
patriarchal structure.
>> HINOJOSA: So define
"patriarchy" for our viewers.
>> ENSLER: To me, patriarchy is really
the notion that there is a
father... kind of omnipotent
father state, and the mechanisms
of that are kind of occupation
domination.
I think it means that values
that are not necessarily
attributable to a man or a woman
but maybe called feminine--
values of cooperation, values of
emotions, values of connecting
to people and doing things
through invitation, and doing
things on the basis of agreement
rather than domination, or, you
know, just even the way see the
earth, for example.
That the earth is something
alone to us.
She's... she's a gift to us, and
we are to honor her, and to
cherish her, and to replenish
her, and to think of all the
ways we can keep her sacred and
alive.
Patriarchy is about how you take
from the earth, and get from the
earth, and plummet the earth,
and plunger the earth, and reap
what you can in the moment so
you'll have the most power, and
the most resources, and the most
money-- and the most power.
>> HINOJOSA: And be the biggest
guy.
>> ENSLER: The biggest, the strongest...
>> HINOJOSA: The biggest country
on the block.
>> ENSLER: Right, and so it's all about
power, isn't it?
It's all about keeping yourself
in a place of domination, and
keeping yourself in a place
where you're on top.
And I think, for me, as long as
that paradigm is still the
paradigm that we're living in,
women will always be stifled,
muted, objectified, because
that's part of how that paradigm
keeps in place.
>> HINOJOSA: Well, what about
when you have more women who are
kind of owning their power,
let's say politically?
>> ENSLER: I think what happens very
often in this culture is that
women think the way to get ahead
is to mirror themselves on the
basis of men who are in power,
and so, often, when they come
into leadership positions, they
still operate the way men
operate.
And actually, sometimes, they're
actually more vigilant in that
role because they have to prove
that they're more men than men
are.
And so sometimes they end up
becoming more oppressive in
those roles.
>> HINOJOSA: More of a bully?
>> ENSLER: More of a bully.
And I think, what does it mean
for a woman to be in power?
That's a really... what does it
mean for someone to be in power
in their feminine empowered
self?
And that can be true for a man
too, and I think... Michelle
Obama, to me, kind of epitomizes
that.
She is somebody who creates
dialogue, she's somebody who's
not afraid to get on her knees
and hug children, but you see
she doesn't lose her power by
doing that.
She's someone who's not afraid
to look at a world of... whether
it's racial injustice or
economic injustice or whatever
it is, and call that out and
say, "How are we going to find a
new kind of form of justice?"
And I think, to me, she embodies
someone who's a very strong
woman, who's a very, very... I
think one of the reasons people
are so scared of her bare arms,
to be honest, is because
they're... they're bare.
There's a vulnerability at the
same time as this incredible
strength, and to me, she's
just... she's a woman, you know?
And to see that in that kind of
leadership role, to me is very,
very helpful.
>> HINOJOSA: So I want to talk
about you personal story, but
before we get to that, let's
talk.... because there are
probably a lot of people who
maybe have never seen The Vagina
Monologues, don't know anything
about what you created after The
Vagina Monologues, which is
something called V-Day.
Let's start with The Vagina
Monologues.
You decided... you started
talking to somebody about
menopause.
>> ENSLER: Right.
>> HINOJOSA: A woman.
>> ENSLER: Yep.
>> HINOJOSA: And that led you to
just start talking to a lot of
women about their vaginas...
>> ENSLER: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: ...and then you put
it together in a play that had
an extraordinary outpouring.
It... how many countries has it
played in now?
>> ENSLER: 130.
>> HINOJOSA: And it's still...
where is it... is it...
>> ENSLER: Oh, it's running... this year
on V-Day there were 5,000
productions of it.
I mean, it's running all over
the world.
It's been running in Paris and
Mexico City for ten years.
>> HINOJOSA: I know, I was like,
"Really?"
>> ENSLER: I know.
>> HINOJOSA: Non-stop.
>> ENSLER: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: So after... after
The Vagina Monologues, you said
one of the things that happened
was that you had a lot of women
coming and talking to you not
about feeling empowered about
their sexuality; they were
actually coming to you and
sharing stories of abuse...
>> ENSLER: Mm-hmm.
>> HINOJOSA: ...of sadness.
And so then what did you decide
to do with all of those stories?
>> ENSLER: Well, I think when I did the
show, it brought up so much
stuff for women.
And at first, I thought, "This
will be great.
Women will share their wonderful
sex lives, their great orgasms,"
and... no.
What happened was...
>> HINOJOSA: Literally, you were
thinking that?
You were like...
>> ENSLER: No, I was thinking, "I'll get
new stories; it will be..."
And what happened was 95% of the
women-- and they would literally
line up after the show with this
kind of desperation-- 95 were
there to tell me they'd been
raped, they'd been incested,
they'd been beaten, they'd been
mutilated... it was
overwhelming.
>> HINOJOSA: And you were
totally not expecting that.
>> ENSLER: Well, I knew there was
violence against women.
I'm a survivor-- I knew.
But I... I had no idea of the
epidemic proportions.
I had no idea of the centrality
of it.
I had no idea how... how many
women; the global nature of it.
That has been the huge
awakening, and as I said to a
friend of mine who works on this
issue as well yesterday, it's
the thing that's in the center
of everything-- it's the big
story that no one wants to talk
about.
I was in prison yesterday with
women who I've been working with
for a long time.
I hadn't seen them in a while.
You know, 95% of women in
prisons are there because of
violence against women-- women
who are homeless, women who
can't hold jobs-- and we can go
down the list-- women who are
depressed, women who are having
diseases, women who can't stay
in relationships, women who end
up being batterers or are
abusive to their children.
If you really look back, you
will see women who were raped as
children, who were incest as
children, and by the way, I
think it's going to end up being
true about men, as well.
I think, if we really want to
look at what's going on with men
and why... and not every man, by
any means, is a perpetrator.
I would say most men are not
perpetrators.
The problem is the men who
aren't perpetrators don't stand
up to speak out to their
brothers and fathers and uncles
and sons who are perpetrators.
>> HINOJOSA: And say things, for
example, when they are in a
conversation, they don't stop
them and say, "Don't talk like
that around me."
>> ENSLER: Exactly.
>> HINOJOSA: "Don't use that
terminology."
>> ENSLER: Exactly.
They don't break the
brotherhood.
They don't risk losing their
stature and their power in the
circle of men.
And I think one of the things
that's really important is that
we help everybody begin to
identify how traumatized they
are.
Men are traumatized and
humiliated and ashamed, and what
they do is they become more
violent, and they become more
macho, and they become more
proving, you know, how sure of
themselves they are.
Women are... end up, often, on
the end of that.
And I don't want to demonize
anyone.
I think when I started this
movement, you know... years ago,
being a survivor, I had a lot of
my own anger and a lot of... at
my father, at, you know, at men
in general.
I don't feel that anymore.
I feel we're all in this
struggle together.
I want men to be with us; I want
men to own this issue; I want
men to see this is theirs so
that we work in partnership to
stop the violence, you know?
>> HINOJOSA: So Eve, you wanted
to focus on men, but actually,
right after The Vagina
Monologues, you really focused
in on women by creating V-Day.
There are probably some people
who are watching this who are
saying, "V-Day; what is that?"
>> ENSLER: Well, it began, actually...
once I discovered all this
violence, I was going to stop
doing The Vagina Monologues,
because I felt immoral to see
all these women expressing and
telling their stories, and not
intervening on their behalf.
So in 1998, I got a group of
friends together and I said,
"Look, I have this play.
How could we use this play to
stop violence against women?
Not manage it; not contain it;
but end it?"
And we came up with this idea of
V-Day, which was Valentine's
Day, Vagina Day, ending violence
against women day.
And we said, "We'll do one event
in New York, and we'll ask every
great actor we know, and see if
they'll, you know, perform."
And, you know, we asked everyone
from Rosie Perez to Glenn Close
to Susan Sarandon to Whoopi--
everybody said, "Yes," it was...
not everybody, two people
didn't.
But we did this we did this
performance, and it rocked New
York.
2,500 people came; you could
just feel the earth move.
And really, from that point to
now, which is 11 years ago, this
movement has just taken off.
And, you know, I look back-- 11
years ago, we were in one city,
you know, one event.
It's now 11 years later; this
year there were 1,400 places in
the world that did 5,000 events.
We raised $70 million...
>> HINOJOSA: Wow!
>> ENSLER: ...and that's all happened
through grass-roots activists in
their local communities standing
up, finding their Vagina Warrior
Power to end violence and take
back their bodies.
And, you know, I wish you could
see some of these women who have
been doing the show and doing,
you know, V-Day for maybe five
years-- they're fierce, and
they're loving, and they're
funny, and they're sexy, and
they're alive, and they're into
pleasure, and they're running
for office.
And they're, you know... and
they're coming into power in a
whole new kind of way.
>> HINOJOSA: Well, I guess this
leads us into your own story.
You were growing up in, what you
like to call a wonderfully
secure, suburban America--
Scarsdale, New York; white
picket fence, the whole thing...
>> ENSLER: Literally.
>> HINOJOSA: Literally.
But there wasn't a lot of
dialogue about what was
happening behind that white
picket fence.
>> ENSLER: No, and I think that's the
sham, right?
That's the sham.
You know, inside my house, you
know, I had a father who was,
like, a corporate president, and
meanwhile, he was violent; he
was a perpetrator.
My life was completely violent,
you know?
>> HINOJOSA: From the time that
you were five...
>> ENSLER: Mm-hmm.
>> HINOJOSA: ...to ten.
>> ENSLER: Well, five to ten was the
sexual violation, and then that
continued in the form of
physical violence until I left.
And if I look at my life, I
really was a consequence of
violence.
Like, everything about my life
was determined by violence in
some fundamental way.
So I was crazy.
>> HINOJOSA: But you weren't
talking about it, right?
>> ENSLER: Nobody was talking about it.
Nobody was talking about it.
I had to act like everything was
happy and, you know, I was
privileged , and white, and
everything was beautiful.
And meanwhile, I was destroyed
inside and I became crazy with
drugs, and crazy... very
promiscuous, and very wild, very
young, very self destructive.
I wanted to be dead.
I was on a very, very suicidal
trajectory.
>> HINOJOSA: And what were you
doing... I mean, when you knew
that you, kind of, had this
history but you weren't talking
about it...
>> ENSLER: Burying it.
Burying it.
Burying it.
Because, you know, as I said to
a friend of mine the other day,
to tell your story, you risk the
end of your family.
You know, it's kind of... I have
a good friend who used to say to
me, "It's either your integrity
or your family," you know?
>> HINOJOSA: That's a really
hard choice.
>> ENSLER: It's really hard... you... to
tell the truth, often it means
you will be exiled from the
tribe.
It doesn't matter whether it's
talking about the
Palestinian/Israeli conflict;
whether your talking about any
kind of truth that is real, you
will be exiled from some club,
some tribe, some form, and that
means you have to essentially
live your life from that point
on as a nomad, which I'm very
happy with now.
Like, I am a vagina nomad
traveling the planet, and I am
happy.
But early on, to risk the loss
of that feels like the end of
your life; and that's why it's
so difficult for so many women
to come forward and tell the
truth.
Like in the Congo, where we're
spending...
>> HINOJOSA: You are... have now
spent a lot of time there.
I remember you talking about the
fact that you felt like Bosnia
was a place where you needed to
be, and now it feels like you
need to be in the Democratic
Republic of Congo.
You have spent so much time
there; you've testified in front
of Congress.
Why has the Congo now become
such an important part of your
life?
>> ENSLER: Well, you know, it's funny.
This morning I got an email
early this morning about a
little girl who's three-- her
name is Chantel-- who was on her
way to the hospital.
She had been raped by a gang.
>> HINOJOSA: She was three years
old...
>> ENSLER: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: ...and raped...
>> ENSLER: ...by a gang, and she died on
the way to the hospital.
Now, just imagine what kind of
rape that has to be to murder
you.
When I first heard the stories
from the Congo from an
extraordinary man named Dr.
Mukwege, I literally couldn't
believe it.
Like, I have been in Bosnia,
I've been in Afghanistan, I've
been in Haiti; I've been in some
pretty rough places where
there's enormous violence, but
Maria, what's going on in the
Congo... and it's an economic
war.
It is fueled by the West's need
for coltan and other minerals
which actually fuel our cell
phones, fuel our computers.
So basically, it's the West,
again, doing a kind of economic
colonialism which is plundering
the minerals of the Congo.
And the way that happens is that
the militias go in and they rape
and destroy the communities, the
communities flee, and they take
over the mines.
>> HINOJOSA: So if... if someone
like you, who's not an expert
political scientist or an
ambassador per se-- you know it
easy; you've just explained it
in a minute-- where is the
resistance to moving forward?
>> ENSLER: Well, it is a huge question.
Look, the conflict in the Congo
has been going on for 12 years;
six million people have died--
six million.
It is estimated that probably
between 200,000 and 500,000
women have been raped and
tortured, okay?
In Bosnia, that conflict
happened and within two years,
those rape camps-- you know, it
was estimated 20,000 to 40,000--
it was stopped.
White women, Eastern Europe.
We're talking about... I have to
say it.
Like, having now campaigned for
two years on this, and you
really hear the most horrendous,
horrific stories of my life-- to
the point where I don't really
sleep very much anymore, because
once those kind of stories enter
you, and you feel the people,
and you hug the people, and you
hold the girls, and you hug...
they're in your soul forever.
They're in your soul forever.
Why isn't the world responding?
Why?
What is stopping... and I can
only believe, on some level,
that it's racism; that we have
an attitude towards black people
in particular-- and black women
in particular-- that somehow,
the destinies of African women
have already been decided, do
you know?
They've already been written
off, you know?
People in the Congo, well,
that's... that's the heart of
darkness.
That's... I think it's actually
the heart of racism.
I think it's... the people in
the Congo are some of the most
beautiful, extraordinary people
I have ever met.
And that country is central to
Africa-- it is central to the
heartbeat of Africa.
To have allowed, as an
international community, this
kind of level of atrocity to go
on for this long is on all our
backs.
It's on all our heads,
particularly when we're using
cell phones that have that kind
of blood on them.
>> HINOJOSA: But I'm sure that
there are some people, Eve, who
hear you and they think, "It
just sounds too overwhelming,
and I'm not even sure if I even
want to hear the stories, if
Eve, who goes there and is in
the country and comes back and
can't sleep because she's
hearing this."
What about women-- and men-- who
just say, "it's too much, it's
too big, it's too far, it's too
overwhelming, and I can't."
>> ENSLER: It's a really good question,
and here's what I have to say:
look, I don't see the world as
such a big, huge-- I see it as a
very small world.
Everything each one of us does
impacts somebody at some moment,
whether we use our cell phones
and that colton is here... we're
all so interconnected now.
You can't say, "It's too much
for me to bear," because if it
were happening to you, how would
you feel if other people said,
"It's too much to bear?"
You know, when I went to
Afghanistan in the 1990's and I
saw what the Taliban was doing
to women, I came back and I had,
literally, a video that the
Revolutionary Association of the
Women of Afghanistan had taken
under their burkas, where they
documented the atrocities in a
stadium where a woman was shot
in her head for flirting.
I brought that to every...
>> HINOJOSA: For flirting?
>> ENSLER: For flirting.
I brought that back and I took
that to every media outlet in
America, and you know what they
said to me? "No one cares about
the women of Afghanistan."
I said, "Listen to me.
You better care, because when
you see something that is that
immoral and is ending rights so
severely, you know it will
impact you eventually."
Look what happened-- 9/11.
I will say the same thing about
the Congo.
If we, as human beings, allow
this kind of atrocity to happen
to our sisters and brothers
anywhere in the world, it will
eventually impact all of us.
It's already impact all of us--
even if we pretend we don't know
it in our consciousness, do you
know?
I remember, in the Reagan years,
when there were many, many
homeless people on the street--
and I was already involved with
nuclear disarmament; working all
these issues-- and I just
couldn't deal with homeless
people.
It was like, "I can't take it
in."
And my friend kept saying to me,
"I want you to come to this
shelter; I want you..."
I kept saying, "I don't want to,
because once this door opens, I
know..."
But I got progressively
depressed, because every time I
would walk past a homeless
person, I'd have to shut some
part of myself off, so my energy
was getting...
And then one day, I finally went
to the shelter, and I met the
women, and I sat with the women,
and you know what?
I felt pain-- but I felt alive,
because I was in connection with
them; and my energy came back,
and my... and that's what I
would say to people.
You know, yes, it's painful to
feel other people's pain, but it
also is the road to your own
life force; the road to your own
humanity-- which is the only
thing that gives us any kind of
life.
>> HINOJOSA: So what happens,
Eve, though-- and I love the
fact that you talk about the
fact that you say, "Look, I live
with this darkness.
Sometimes I cry on an hourly
basis," other days are great
days when you feel entirely
empowered.
But what happens when you leave
these countries?
When you come in, you open the
door-- there's talk.
These women are able to unload,
but then you leave.
>> ENSLER: But I don't leave.
I mean, V-Day doesn't leave.
I mean, one of the... I think
the great things about the
movement is that V-Day is women
everywhere.
Right now, we now have V-Day
Congo where we are in
partnership with many, many
local groups on the ground who
are really motivating the V-Day
movement and motivating the
campaign-- women who have been
working there forever to empower
women and stop the rapes, and
I'm coming late to the party.
We now are opening a huge
facility called The City of Joy,
which will be for women
survivors to turn pain to power,
to create leaders.
We've created a massive campaign
all through the Congo-- through
Eastern Congo-- and all over the
world.
If you go on the V-Day website
you'll see the V-Wall for Congo,
where women and men across the
planet have written letters and
sent in pictures for the women
that just got printed and put up
on the walls of the hospital in
Bukavu, where all the rape
survivors are.
So we don't leave.
There isn't one country, because
V-Day is the local women.
It's not like we're somebody
outside the country coming in--
V-Day only exists if women in
the country take the movement
and make it theirs.
>> HINOJOSA: And what happens to
these women who are then in
their countries, kind of opening
this up?
>> ENSLER: They get powerful, and more
powerful, and right now, we've
done... they've done Breaking
the Silence events there, where
they've told their stories
publicly.
We're just about to do another
event in Kinshasa.
There's been mad, powerful
street demonstrations.
I predict to you, in three to
five years, they'll be a major
women's movement that will take
over the Congo, if we keep
going.
I do.
I think it'll happen.
The women are so fierce and
they're so resilient, and all
they need is a little support to
direct their own destinies, to
take agency over their bodies,
over their countries, and they
will turn that country around.
>> HINOJOSA: So tell me, Eve,
how do you handle it?
I mean, you take all this stuff
in; you're managing amazing
projects, you're in the
prisons-- you're also working
with women in prison-- you're
traveling... what do you do with
it all?
>> ENSLER: You know...
>> HINOJOSA: I mean, you said
you don't sleep, which worries
me...
>> ENSLER: Well, sometimes I don't
sleep.
Sometimes... you know... I'm an
emotional... you know, I have a
new book called I am an
Emotional Creature-- The Secret
Life of Girls Around the
World-- I'm an emotional
creature.
I... my life, you know... I have
days when I'm wildly happy, and
I have hours where-- like this
morning I was on the phone with
Chantel who's three years old,
who didn't make it to the...
hospital.
I was just... destroyed.
But you let that move through
you and you let yourself... you
let yourself be connected to the
river of humanity, and swimming
in that.
I swim that river, you know?
I want to be in that river; I
don't want to be outside the
river.
I don't want to live in a mall.
I don't want to live, you know,
with things that protect me from
human beings.
This is what we're here to do;
to engage with each other, and
sometimes that's a glorious
process.
Sometimes my heart feels so much
pain for what's going on in the
Congo or in Haiti or
Afghanistan.
Sometimes I see the victories of
women.
You know, we're seeing
incredible victories of women
all over the world who are
having rights change, or having
laws change, or coming into
power...
>> HINOJOSA: So there's progress
for you?
>> ENSLER: There's incredible progress!
Look, people... you know, when
the floggings happened in
Pakistan a few months ago,
within 24 hours there was
everyone online-- here, there--
and the government, 48 hours
later, stepped in.
That didn't happen eight years
ago, ten years ago.
There is incredible progress
happening.
We have huge movements.
There were 5,000 V-Days this
year-- that's a lot of V-Days.
>> HINOJOSA: Okay, so here's
what I want you to leave our
audience with.
Imagine that there's a young
woman or a girl who is having...
you know, who needs to break;
who needs to tell the truth.
What does she do?
>> ENSLER: I think she finds one person
she can trust in her community,
and she tells her story--
because when you tell your
story, that's the beginning.
When you hear your story, when
you know your story, when you
manifest your story in a way
that makes you exist.
So much of what violence does is
end our existential reality and
rob us of meaning and existence,
and I think, for young girls,
it's so important that they tell
their stories and they find a
community of girls in which
they're safe enough to tell
those stories and then transform
those stories.
>> HINOJOSA: Eve Ensler, thank
you for telling your story, and
for transforming all of us.
>> ENSLER: Thank you.
>> HINOJOSA: Continue the
conversation at
wgbh.org/oneonone.
Captioned by
Media Access Group at WGBH
access.wgbh.org
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